Theological thinking...
So, this morning I woke up in just enough time to go to the church with Nancy. She is awesome, and translates when people talk so I kind of get the basic idea of what is going on. So, anyway, this morning they were reading from Revelation 21, and the following verse got me thinking a bit. I thought I would write my thoughts down and ask all the theologians and non-theologians alike to share your thoughts with me...
So, here's the part I read that got me thinking a bit... (verse 7-8) "All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But cowards who turn away from me, and unbelievers, and the corrupt, and the murderers, and the immoral and those who practice witchcraft, and idol worshippers, and all liars- their doom is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death."
I started wondering a bit about what was said here... I mean, it sort of looks like a summary of those who will go to heaven versus those who will not. (Again correct me if I am wrong here) And the interesting thing is that the only thing that is said for those who are going to heaven is that they are the ones "who are victorious". what exactly does that mean? Victorious over what... what will be the battle that they must win? Is it the battle to stay faithful to God in spite of all of the distractionc in our lives? Or the battle to stay faithful in the last days when many will fall away from their faith? It doesn't seem to be a very clear directive in terms of a "to do list" and in a sense that is probably rather comforting to some and frustrating for others.
Legalism in the true sense depends on a strict LIST of do's and don'ts, a specific set of rules or laws that must be followed. It is actually a bit easier, more black and white when there is a list and for some I am sure this is what they want to have in religion. At times, I have to be honest, I think I would actually prefer a LIST of rules or expectations. Without a specific list, there is sometimes fear and guilt that comes even when it is not necessary. People tend to worry that they are doing things wrong or sinning because things are not always black in white.
For those who want and prefer black and white laws, they will most likely consider verse 8 to be more helpful than verse 7 in determining their behaviour and attitudes... The rules they would consider to be a list of sins include: 1.turning away from the faith 2.being an unbeliever 3.being/acting corrupt 4.murder 5.immorality 6.practicing witchcraft 7.practicing idol worshippers 8.lying This almost seems like a list of sins for those who prefer to live according to black and white laws of behaviour. But is this really EVERYTHING? Both verses seem to be vague enough that people can interpret things in different ways. It seems that for some this makes them feel like they can justify certain behaviours that are not clearly stated as wrong, and for others they live in a constant state of self-doubt, "is this right or is this wrong?"
When I think about it, I am not 100% sure myself. In a sense, I think that if we believe in God, have faith and try to live lives full of the "Fruit of the Spirit" (from Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control)then we should be living right enough to be accepted into heaven. As long as I can honestly say that i am living according to those things, I think I am living uprightly.
So, now for you to comment... What's your take???
So, here's the part I read that got me thinking a bit... (verse 7-8) "All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But cowards who turn away from me, and unbelievers, and the corrupt, and the murderers, and the immoral and those who practice witchcraft, and idol worshippers, and all liars- their doom is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death."
I started wondering a bit about what was said here... I mean, it sort of looks like a summary of those who will go to heaven versus those who will not. (Again correct me if I am wrong here) And the interesting thing is that the only thing that is said for those who are going to heaven is that they are the ones "who are victorious". what exactly does that mean? Victorious over what... what will be the battle that they must win? Is it the battle to stay faithful to God in spite of all of the distractionc in our lives? Or the battle to stay faithful in the last days when many will fall away from their faith? It doesn't seem to be a very clear directive in terms of a "to do list" and in a sense that is probably rather comforting to some and frustrating for others.
Legalism in the true sense depends on a strict LIST of do's and don'ts, a specific set of rules or laws that must be followed. It is actually a bit easier, more black and white when there is a list and for some I am sure this is what they want to have in religion. At times, I have to be honest, I think I would actually prefer a LIST of rules or expectations. Without a specific list, there is sometimes fear and guilt that comes even when it is not necessary. People tend to worry that they are doing things wrong or sinning because things are not always black in white.
For those who want and prefer black and white laws, they will most likely consider verse 8 to be more helpful than verse 7 in determining their behaviour and attitudes... The rules they would consider to be a list of sins include: 1.turning away from the faith 2.being an unbeliever 3.being/acting corrupt 4.murder 5.immorality 6.practicing witchcraft 7.practicing idol worshippers 8.lying This almost seems like a list of sins for those who prefer to live according to black and white laws of behaviour. But is this really EVERYTHING? Both verses seem to be vague enough that people can interpret things in different ways. It seems that for some this makes them feel like they can justify certain behaviours that are not clearly stated as wrong, and for others they live in a constant state of self-doubt, "is this right or is this wrong?"
When I think about it, I am not 100% sure myself. In a sense, I think that if we believe in God, have faith and try to live lives full of the "Fruit of the Spirit" (from Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control)then we should be living right enough to be accepted into heaven. As long as I can honestly say that i am living according to those things, I think I am living uprightly.
So, now for you to comment... What's your take???
posted by Gillian at
4:37:00 PM
5 Comments:
I think one part of the puzzle might be that, as long as you're asking yourself "is this right or is this wrong", you're on the right track. Those who don't care about right or wrong, and those who always believe they are right might be in trouble. I think it's not exactly self-doubt, but more of a self-analysis, a way to remind ourselves to always be thinking and aware. My humble opinion, anyway :o)
Uhhhhh.....heavyyyyyyyyyy! Whoa! Do you think witchcraft involves Tarot cards? If so, I am destined for eternal damnation. Yikes, maybe I should reconsider the church as a profession......maybe not, I might drink too much of the blood of Christ, if ya know what I mean! Har de har har! BLASPHEMER!
A.
I agree with the Mikki's comments - pretty heavy stuff! First of all; may I say that I am glad to hear that you went to church - since I know how strong your faith is.
As for hell and damnation and who is going where - well lists are only as good as those who will follow them.
I do not for one moment believe that I have lead a sinless life BUT one thing that I am totally sure of is the God is a loving and forgiving God and as long as I try to do the will of God and not my will and if I ask for forgiveness when I do stray; then God and I are on the same pathway.
I think that we get lost when we venture off on our own path and forget that we are 'followers of Christ' not leaders!
I guess it is that power struggle thing in congregations that can be the hardest thing to overcome at times!
Anyway, you know me always looking for a good theological discussion
love and hugs
Mom
Hahaha, I was kind of baiting people with something rather provocative to see if I could get some comments since it's been kind of quiet the past little while!!
Great discussions though, I find these things kind of interesting to think about...
I like that idea of "self-analysis" versus self-doubt... but the trouble is some people take it to the extreme and become so beaten down and can do no earthly good, while feeling overcome with guilt unneccessarily...
You know me however, I feel very comfortable with who and what I am... I don't let doubt come in often, but I always wonder how to help others who are overcome with it...
Anyway, I hope to post lots of pics from this weekend if I can soon... Kuujjuarapik was SO much fun!!!
Revelation is full of militaristic symbolism. I wouldn't read too much into the "victors" and the "cowards" talk. It's also full of, as you said, black-and-whites, which is one reason a lot of Christians love quoting it. You're right, though - it makes things easier, like a list of dos and don'ts.
I love the Book of Revelation. It's all sci-fi and doom and gloom with riders and lakes of fire. Kinda like Lord of the Rings, I guess!
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